Sorry this is so late. I had the whole thing written up and blogger logged me out for no apparent reason and deleted my most recently saved copy! I want to scream! That's the last time I ever use Safari! Argh!
But here it is. If I suddenly remember if I left something out that was in here earlier, I will update - so keep your eyes peeled!
But here it is. If I suddenly remember if I left something out that was in here earlier, I will update - so keep your eyes peeled!
Cyberstalking: Gender and Computer Ethics - Alison Adam
Alison Adam's argues that feminist theory and ethics should be adapted to computer ethics on the basis that men and women have different online experiences due to:
•access: men have greater access to computers and the internet than women
•gender and/or power imbalence (latent or not): women and minority groups are usually targeted by the mainstream.
Feminist Ethics:
• rethinks traditional ethics that 'devalue the moral experience of women.' (text p. 212)
• Traditional Western Ethics fail women in five ways:
1) shows little concern for women's interests and rights as opposed to men's.
2) it dismisses the problems that arise in so-called private world, the realm in which women cook, clean, and care for the you, the old, and the sick.
3)it suggests, that on average, women are not as morally developed as men.
4) it overvalues culturally masculine traits like independence, autonomy, separation, mind, reason, culture, transcendence, war, and death, and undervalues culturally feminine traits like interdependence, community, connection, body, emotion, nature, immanence, peace, and life
5) it favors culturally masculine ways of moral reasoning that emphasize rules, universality, and impartiality over culturally feminine ways of moral reasoning that emphasize relationships, particularity, and partiality [1]
How feminist ethics would work online:
• The community(feminist) rather than the individual(traditional): this would provide a safety net for minority groups who do not have the confidence to defend themselves from online abuse. Eg. A cyberstalker attacking an individual is one thing, attacking a whole community is something else and a far more daunting project. Thus the internet would be seen as safe/safer - as opposed to now where it is considered dangerous (that we worry about identity theft and giving away personal details online is proof of this)
• Following from above: the internet becomes more user friendly, thus there is a profit to be made as well ;)
• Feminist ethics exposes power imbalances. People do not need to fear retribution for speaking out against the mainstream. In a sense the internet becomes more "democratic"
Case studies of harassment:
• Stephanie Brail, dating back to 1993: for defending another women who had been verbally attacked by a number of men for views on an alternative women's publication. Stephanie's name and details were posted on sex chat rooms and people began to contact her. The perp. was eventually traced.
• Jayne Hitchcock, 2000, had people posting claims that she was a pornographer on the net. The perp left sexually explicit messages that lead to people contacting her or coming to her house.
Questions (more to come when I remember them):
In your opinion is it possible for feminist (sorry, I am aware it said computer before, my bad) ethics to be incorporated into the net? Has it already been done? Or is the internet 'too far gone' down the road of western ethics to change?
[1] Tong, R. and Williams, N. Feminist Ethics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) (29th November 2006), plato.stanford.edu, available at: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-ethics/
18 comments:
In response to Nikky's questions:
I think that in some ways, yes, traditional ethics are becoming a part of online culture. The best example I can think of is child pornography. There have been several high profile cases in Australia recently in which people who have accessed and/or distributed child porn images online, have been given lengthy jail sentences. Thus online behaviour is being regulated, and a set of ethics applied to guide what is acceptable online behaviour.
I don't think the internet will ever EVER become as PC as main- stream western society. However, in terms of online behaviour in for example, a chartroom, this is usually regulated by the administrator. If a particular person crosses the line too often they will be blocked from the room/group/forum. The level of benevolence within interactions can vary dramatically depending on the forum and topics of conversation.
When a person is interacting online, they can't see the physical reactions of others, the consequences of their words thus its easier to become rude, inconsiderate and opinionated. Online, people forget to self reflect; normal Christians become fundamentalists, the agnostic become atheists, all for arguments sake.
I think that untill the whole world is free from tradition western ethics, the internet will continue to be influenced (ruled?) by them.
Hi Nikky, intersting issues you have raised there.
I haven't got a big speel, but I thought one of the things you quoted were intersting; the author's 5 ways in which traditional ethics fails women:
She talks about 'culturally masculine traits' and 'culturally feminine traits'.
Maybe I'm missing the point, but isn't a lot of feminism based on the idea that most gender differences are social constructs and that at the core of it, there are very few inherently gendered 'traits', thus we should all be treated equally?
In this case, I find it strange that this feminist writer would be using these 'cultural traits' to justify her argument.
I may be right off the point, but I just found that intersting.
What do you guys think?
So I'm just going to put some opinions out on this thread..
"•access: men have greater access to computers and the internet than women" They do? I wouldn't have guessed.
"The community(feminist) rather than the individual(traditional): this would provide a safety net etc etc" So... forums/message boards. Which have existed for just about forever on the net. I don't know how that's new or feminist.
"Case studies of harassment: etc etc" To me.. the internet is a pretty brutal place. Maybe that's just the places I go haha, but not the point. You can find examples of everyone/anyone getting harassed on the internet, for pretty much any reason. 2 examples, out of the context of the entire internet, isn't really convincing me of anything. Furthermore, not all harassment is actually bad. That probably comes across weird, but there is a self policing/vigilante element to the internet.
Sorry about this weird and rambling post, I'm slightly hungover and just putting this stuff out there as I read through the post.
"I don't think the internet will ever EVER become as PC as main- stream western society" THANK GOD! Hhaha at least the internet still has a sense of humour.
"When a person is interacting online, they can't see the physical reactions of others, the consequences of their words thus its easier to become rude, inconsiderate and opinionated." I feel yes and no to this.. while some people are undeniably massive jerks on the internet and wouldn't get away with that crap in real life, for some people this 'removed' form of communication allows them to articulate their opinions that they might not be able to express otherwise - whether being too shy to speak or taking too long to build an argument/reply in face-to-face conversation pace. Or other ways! Basically yeah, it's easy to be a jerk online, but it also opens up more people to the debate? Which is important..
"Online, people forget to self reflect; normal Christians become fundamentalists, the agnostic become atheists, all for arguments sake." You seem to be suggesting that people lose control of themselves when on the internet? Like I'd agree with that the internet can polarize opinions to a small extent maybe? But most people don't go crazy.. another thing (sigh i go on and on haha) - agnostic to atheist - pretty sure they're very different beliefs, like... fundamentally different. So not going to get pushed to one side or another for arguments sake.
Anyway I've probably just made myself out to be the biggest internet jerk on this blog.. I don't mean to be!! hahah yeah please do rip into my post, it's probably flawed all over the place but right now I'm tired and there's no saving of drafts on this...
Adding onto Liam's comment:
"The community(feminist) rather than the individual(traditional): this would provide a safety net etc etc" So... forums/message boards. Which have existed for just about forever on the net. I don't know how that's new or feminist. <-- Could we call the net innately/more feminist (that real life communities) if the forums/message boards have been around since the beginning?
I really just want to ask why Liam thinks not all harrassment is bad? Like, maybe it is just the sites you visit that makes you, say, desensitized to the things that people do to one another. Cyberstalking, trolling (okay, some of it's funny), posting people's private details online, hacking - if anything, it's worse than in real life because there is this mask of anonymity to hide behind. People wouldn't go into a group of epileptics with strobe lights and whatnot, but people will happily hack into epilepsy forums and post brightly coloured flashing pictures - because they know they won't get caught? Because they can? For the lulz?
Seriously.
I do however, agree with the fact that - while it allows people to be insane assholes - the internet does allow shyer people to interact more freely, because it's easier in an anonymous environment. And that is a good thing, obviously. Especially if it allows such people to develop their interactions in real life.
In relation to the original post? I do agree to some extent. Yes, men would be more likely to have access to computers than women, that makes sense to me. And yes, women and minorities are often targetted, especially in such an anonymous environment. It's not to say men cannot be the victims of online harrassment or anything like that, but I'd say that much of the harrassment and offensive jokes/memes on the internet is not directed at men. Probably cause the majority of 4chan is guys, but I don't know I don't know!
To Nikky, it's an interesting point.. I'm trying to think about ways now in which you can be an individual on the internet. Perhaps it's true that unless you have your own website, you're going to have to be part of 'some' sort of community. Maybe we can say the internet is innately more feminine? But that's countered by the more people being rude/jerks because of the anonymity of the internet? So compared to real life.. there's a stronger community but there's also a larger number of people out to cause trouble? Hmmm. The struggle lies in the line "Thus the internet would be seen as safe/safer - as opposed to now where it is considered dangerous". If what we have now is a feminine internet... yet it's considered dangerous... Hmm. Seems kinda broken.
To Alex, cheers for reminding me. I don't have so much of a problem with the harassment when it's directed at pretty nasty people. An example is this guy Hal Turner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner, or if you want a more detailed but less... savory website, http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Hal_Turner). For those not checking the links, Hal Turner is basically...
"an American white nationalist and white supremacist... often made news for his extreme right-wing views. He promotes antisemitism (including rounding up and killing Jews) and opposes the existence of the state of Israel. He also denies the Holocaust. Turner has made numerous threats against political figures"
I have pretty much no sympathy for this guy, and the attacks that the internet directed at him. Other examples include anonymous internet users aiding in the arrests of internet pedophiles. Obviously the majority of the harassment is negative, but there is some silver lining at least. Whether they're doing it for good or just for their own amusement, I don't know..
I suppose it's one of those "does the ends justify the means" situations...
About the gender access to the internet, I would have imagined that anywhere except in the third world, most women would have the same opportunity to use the internet as men, if they wanted to. Maybe I'm horribly naive and wrong, but that's what I'd have guessed.
I'd probably agree that most harassment targets minorities. Kinda like how things go in history/real life.
re: the access to computers in Western society
You only have to walk past the computer science building to realise that the lectures are dominated by men.
I'm going to make a bit of a generalisation here, but bare with me;
If men (generally) are writing the codes, and developing new forms of software, while women hold (generally) a more passive role of simply receiving and using the software; can we really call this equal access?
I'm trying to think how to best put this... going with your example...
I think women have equal opportunity to be in that lecture theatre for comp sci. If they're not choosing to do it, that's fine. They have the choice, and thus I think it's equal opportunity.
(Hopefully I didn't miss your point completely haha)
equal opportunity except for where society tells them that computers and video games are male activities or hobbies. why do you think people make such a big deal about girls who DO do these subjects? because it's not seen as the norm for females.
women have the opportunity to makes lots of different choices in their lives that can be seen as equal to men's - it doesn't mean that they do, that they feel they are really able to, or that society will let them without putting up a fight.
I think I'd have agreed with you 10 years ago? But not today.
Here's some articles on women in gaming that I think really challenge the stereotype of the male gamer. They were picked up off the first page of a google search.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2004/jan04/01-08womengamers.mspx
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4634519.stm
http://www.gravitasgaming.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=118
http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp
Obviously none of these are directly relating to Australia, but I still think they're important. In particular, I think it's the BBC article that claims 70% of the gaming population in South Korea is female. Obviously our culture is quite different from that of South Korea, but I think we're well on the way.
I think you're missing my point. I'm not denying that women can play these games, can access technology in the same way as men - I'm saying that it's not seen as the norm for women to do this, and that women are not encouraged - not neccesarily consciously - to play video games.
Video games are - on the whole - developed by men, for men. Many of them have female characters depicted in such ways that they are sex objects for men, GTA I think number 4? Or all of them, i don't know. You can rape prostitutes. It's sexist, it's misogynistic and it DOES encourage the attitude that gaming is not for women, it is for men - why would something that is made for women, with women in mind, so blatantly sexualise its target audience and allow them to be raped?
2002 Video Game Report Card
More on Sex(ism) in Video Games
Explaining disconnect between women, video games
Video Games and Gender
wow this debate is getting interesting. I've never played a computer game in my life, so I'll comment just on the issue of women in computing/engineering fields with a personal example.
I when I first told my parents and friends I wanted to study engineering I was met with a lot of opposition. My best friend warned me that all female engineers were either rangers or dykes. My parents didn't think it would be a nice job for a girl, my dad, who works in the industry, is convinced that promotions and pay rises are few and far between for me, as a female engineer. They cried out in despair, requesting that I should do teaching. I've been studying engineering for a couple of years now, and my parents one consolation is that perhaps after a few years of working, I'll hate engineering so much that I’ll leave, do a dipEd and become a maths teacher. I doubt my situation is an isolated example.
I think Therese's example of her experiences in engineering really demonstrates what I'm trying to get at - that women may have these technically equal opportunities but it doesn't mean that it is really that equal in reality.
Being able to do engineering as a female is not the same as a male doing engineering. A woman is told that it is not a job for a female, that she won't receive the same treatment as men in the same field, that there are more "suitable" professions for her. It is seen as a male profession by society.
You can turn it around and use an example of, say, male nurses or teachers or flight attdendants. There's nothing stopping men from going into these jobs and yet society in general deems these occupations as "women's work" and men are often looked down on, stereotyped as gay, or seen as "less of a man".
I get what therese and alex are saying, that the majority of video games is for the male market and because of this few females will play it.
But they're also video games aimed specifically at the female market - the best example I can think of is the Sims.
Could we perhaps say that the reason for the gender imbalence is because of the uneven production of male and female orientated games? Could this be the case in Korea, where more games for the female market are available? (I don't know much about Korea, but I'll put it out there :p)
I do agree that games such as The Sims and Animal Crossing and Cooking Mama and Nintendogs and such games are designed for/marketed at women, but that in itself strikes me as problematic.
It's promoting the notion that shooting and car racing are male-only games, while these lightweight "emotional" games - where you tend to gardens, cook food, and look after people or animals - are more for women. It's enforcing negative gender stereotypes.
Yes, it's good that they are making games for women and recognising women as gamers, but who says women want to play these particular games? Who says men don't? If they made the games more gender equal - and no, I don't have any solutions :( - it wouldn't be an issue. But the manufacturers and advertisers of games are promoting this idea that "this is what men like, this is what women like, and the two don't cross" and that shows that video games are still gendered.
Sorry if I come across as touchy or anything! D: I'm not even a gamer..
So basically if games such as world of warcraft and Final Fantasy less gender biased do you think girls would play? Or would it still be seen as abnormal?
A thought I just had going back to the idea of women being objectified in video games, generally speaking Eastern cultures have a much more liberal sexuality than western culture, especially Japan - where a good number of these games are produced. I think this has a large impact on how women of western culture response to male dominated video games. What do other people think?
Something else interesting - and a little off topic. A lot of video games are fantasy/sci-fi based with prodominately male players. However, some stat I picked up from somewhere I can't remember is that something like 70% of fantasy novel readers a women. I don't quite where I'm going with this, but I do think it says something about gender and entertainment. I'm not sure how though ??
Oh yay, more people :D I was going to reply last night but decided I was just too tired to get into the nitty gritty at midnight haha.
I guess my first question is who IS encouraged today to play video games? Like it happens but I doubt there are parents "billy you're spending TOO much time outside, come and play halo". I know that my parents gave me crap about it up until I was 19 maybe? And they still don't like it, just now they know I'm not going to change haha. Anyway that was a minor point...
Regarding it not being the norm for women to play games, are we focusing on Australia or is this the 1st/2nd world? I think that's important because Australia is probably behind the US where it's around 40% of gamers being women. That's getting pretty close to half, and expect that ratio will keep rising. And what did you think of the SK ratio, where it's more likely you'll be playing with women than men?
In terms of Therese's experience, yeah, I get where you're coming from, and I understood the point that you were trying to make Alex. I think some of my articles actually were related but ah well. I'm not so sure that the gaming industry is as bad as that, but I'm not IN the industry so I can't really say. I think there's some articles around "Girls in Gaming" that IGN did, speaking to various women working in different areas of the industry. If I find the articles I'll link them.
In terms of the males working in 'female' industries, I think, at least with those 2 example occupations, that's a really old idea and no longer applicable to either of them. In terms of the shortage of male teachers, I think that's more an indicator of the fact that there are much better payed jobs elsewhere (eg, the trades, mining industry), not that men are avoiding teaching because it's a 'female' occupation.
Just noticed I skipped over the GTA4 part and your links, now I'll comment there. I haven't played GTA4 yet, so I'll stick to what I do know. The GTA series have always been about controversy and pushing the limits of what's been seen as acceptable. They operate in generally 'sandbox' style, where if you want you can play missions, or you can run around and cause general death/destruction. Part of where I'm going with this point is that in GTA games... you're a dick to EVERYONE. In GTA4, do you know that it's actually rape, or the use of a prostitute. If it's the latter, it's nothing new to the GTA series. (damn, just got distracted and lost my train of thought..) Ummm. Oh here we go. The reason the GTA series is popular is not because of the stereotyping/sexualising of women, it's because the games are well-made and are generally 'fun' (mileage may vary) to play. I do think a bit too much is made of GTA and the gaming industry, as GTA was always about the shock value (zomg, points for killing cops). It's just one series, albeit a successful one.
The 2002 report card link annoyed me because a) it blatantly lied. In GTA3 the player is NOT rewarded for killing prostitutes. b) it brought up the game BMX XXX, but failed to point out why the content was in it (it was a crap game, and the developer wanted to stir up controversy/interest in the game, so added omg-boobies), or that the game was a massive flop and sold less than 100,000 copies. Basically it wrote that source off for me completely when it was so clearly biased.
I'm running short on time so I'm going to hurry this along now..
Re: girl games/games aimed at girl market, yes and no. I think there are some more blatant examples - Barbie's Horse training etc, are clearly aimed at the young girls market. Games like animal crossing and the sims are more gender neutral - if you look at the advertising, it usually involves girls and guys in equal ratio, further examples are things like Singstar/guitar hero. Now I'd probably guess the advertising is slightly skewed to females in the former and male in the latter, but both of them engage/include the other sex. I'm generally hard pressed to find someone who hasn't played either or both of them (mind you, I haven't gone looking either). Look at 90% of the games on the Wii - they're mini-game types and are targeted at men and women - again, look at the advertising. It's nearly always either a family, couple or group of friends, men and women.
In terms of Korea, the popularity there is with MMO's generally (my assumption anyway). Looking at the example of Ragnarok Online, which is I think one of the biggest in Korea and has been exported around the world, it's targeted at men and women, again looking at the advertising! I'd probably say more of the advertising is directed at women, but when 70% of gamers are women, of course you're going to try for the larger market.
Alex, maybe RO is more of what you're looking for in terms of something close to gender-equal. The female characters are not stupid proportions and their clothing is not skimpy. Yes, I realise this is problem with the western games industry.
In terms of FPS/violent games for boys, yeah there is that stereotype, but that's also challenged by high-profile professional 'all-girl' clans competing in these games (I think the major ones would be Quake3 and CS). I'm going to wrap it up here, probably some glaring errors in this but I don't have the effort to go back haha. Alex, as it seems you're the one who feels the most strongly about this topic, I can only suggest that you do try gaming. There's a lot of hype and mis-information on both sides. Being a gamer/part of the gamer community, I tend to feel gaming gets the rough end of the stick more often than not, but I also recognise there are things the community and the industry can do better.
Deep stuff haha, I'm getting lunch. Ciao pals..
I don't have a lot to say, although I've been following this conversation with interest. But here are a couple of recent columns on women in gaming that I think you might find interesting. They suggest - and I'm inclined to agree with this - that perceptions are more important than content in determining whether women takes up gaming or jobs in game development. There is this idea that your stereotypical videogame - Halo 3, say - is for guys, and I think girls tend to think about that and decide that they're probably not going to be interested.
In Women in Games: Who Cares?, Brenda Brathwaite points out how rooted the assumption of the male gamer and game developer still is - by proposing to write a piece on "men and games". The reactions of her interview subjects are very funny, but also illuminating. In the same way "whiteness" isn't generally considered a racial identity, but the norm, maleness is assumed in game development and femaleness is seen as odd and unusual.
What Women Want by Leigh Alexander suggests that it isn't necessarily the content of your stereotypical videogame that turns women off - lots of women also like blowing stuff up! - but the presentation and marketing, which tends to assume the male gamer.
I think the presentation of videogames is an important point when considering why "women don't game", and particularly their treatment of female characters. I imagine the way female characters are often highly sexualised in high-profile games to appeal to the male market would put many women off. Depending on the extent, it does put me off. (Of course, it would probably put some men off too.)
Going back to the original topic of gender online and stalking - I just bumped into an interesting example of this. On a forum I read, a new member introducing herself commented that she started using a gender-neutral nickname online after she was "harassed and stalked" because she was a woman. She added that now people tend to assume she's a male teenager.
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